Curse

Skye Marin · Jul 07, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

You know, if you want to compare two titles for grind and PvE skills, why not compare Faction to Nightfall? Luxon/Kurzick to Sunspear?

Let's say you can get 10k/ hour from FFF, and you can get about 500 Sunspear from a wurm run every 10 minutes. Both could be done faster, both are mindless and easy grinds.

If donated, you can get 20k/hour Faction, or 3,000 Sunspear. That means, you'll get over Rank 7 Sunspear with a single hour of Sunspear Grinding. That same hour would get you about 1/5th through the first tier, and not even get any skills in your pocket, as well as forfeiting any gold from Amber or Jadeite.

Here are the title ranks:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sunspear_rank
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Allegiance_rank

If you want to get half-power on Sunspear, you need less than an hour of real grind, that is, you'll probably get it as you progress though the game. Talking wurm runs, it's one total, although to do a proper wurm run, you need to beat the game to get to hard mode, and reach Rank 7 anyways. No big deal. It's called playing the game.

Let's say I want to get half-power on Faction. Rank 6. That's 1.2 million. Saying 400 Faction a run, it's about 3,000 runs. Going from 20k/hour by donating, you're still looking at 60 hours.

Compare 60 hours of pure, out of your way grind to a simple 10 minute task.

360 times difference in effort.

Some say that Kurzick/Luxon is account based, so shouldn't be like Sunspear. I can agree to that. What would be fair? 2:1? 5:1?

Right now, it's 360:1.

I don't have 360 PvE characters. Do you?

Series · Jul 07, 2007, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

You know, if you want to compare two titles for grind and PvE skills, why not compare Faction to Nightfall? Luxon/Kurzick to Sunspear?

Let's say you can get 10k/ hour from FFF, and you can get about 500 Sunspear from a wurm run every 10 minutes. Both could be done faster, both are mindless and easy grinds.

If donated, you can get 20k/hour Faction, or 3,000 Sunspear. That means, you'll get over Rank 7 Sunspear with a single hour of Sunspear Grinding. That same hour would get you about 1/5th through the first tier, and not even get any skills in your pocket, as well as forfeiting any gold from Amber or Jadeite.

Here are the title ranks:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sunspear_rank
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Allegiance_rank

If you want to get half-power on Sunspear, you need less than an hour of real grind, that is, you'll probably get it as you progress though the game. Talking wurm runs, it's one total, although to do a proper wurm run, you need to beat the game to get to hard mode, and reach Rank 7 anyways. No big deal. It's called playing the game.

Let's say I want to get half-power on Faction. Rank 6. That's 1.2 million. Saying 400 Faction a run, it's about 3,000 runs. Going from 20k/hour by donating, you're still looking at 60 hours.

Compare 60 hours of pure, out of your way grind to a simple 10 minute task.

360 times difference in effort.

Some say that Kurzick/Luxon is account based, so shouldn't be like Sunspear. I can agree to that. What would be fair? 2:1? 5:1?

Right now, it's 360:1.

I don't have 360 PvE characters. Do you?

Maybe that's an idea... multiply it by the amount of PvE characters you have so that it shows your "family's" allegiance with the title, and whenever u make a new character you need to earn a bit more faction to get back to the same level you were at before. So it would be 360:1 if you had 360 PvE characters.

Skye Marin · Jul 07, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Or, just max the power of the skills out at Rank 5, then add a handful of more ranks so that they scale similarly to Sunspear.

Comparing 20k to 3k per hour, the ratio there is about 6:1

Rank 5 would be 875,000 which is a total ratio of about 3:1, or 6:1 effort if you're not donating to your guild.

The rank directly before that could be a fraction of that 875k, like it is in Sunspear. That way, the ratio of 3:1 remains constant through the whole spectrum.

Series · Jul 07, 2007, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destro Maniak

HAHAHA you are soo lazy. Maxing skills at 100k and still so much? After the update I donated 110k in 1 single day and got 220k. SO THAT EASILY MEANS IF YOU WORK HARD FOR 1 DAY YOU CAN GET IT. and with half of my effort of getting 220k

This is a game. People have jobs where they do work. Perhaps if you weren't "soo lazy," you would have one too and would also find grinding away in an online game pretty boring.

Destro Maniak · Jul 08, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

This is a game. People have jobs where they do work. Perhaps if you weren't "soo lazy," you would have one too and would also find grinding away in an online game pretty boring.

HAHA. First of all I am going shcool and way more succesfull(I really am really good at my lessons,really) then you imagine for someone who is donating 110k in a HOLIDAY. So as you see students dont have work in summer. And how many people that has work playes this game. Probably less then %5 percent of community. And you really beleive people who says they are adult. Probably LIES. It might be true sometimes but very little. I am sure nearly every player is in holiday. Oh btw grinding in a MMORPG has grinding. If there arent grind and you dont play a game after finishing the game ARE YOU REALLY WILLING TO PUT ABOUT 150$ TO A GAME LAST FEW WEEK. Then play Elder Scrolls or something. What are you gonna do with skills anyway. Complete the storyline?

freekedoutfish · Jul 08, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

/signed

it needs to be reduced to an acceptable level. Its just unfeasable for most people to reach the max levels. Its only hardcore players who could reach those levels.

Especially since we now have skills that are effected by faction levels, it should be within reach for the majority of players, not just hardcore.

The huge levels are actually a deterant to me personally. I know I could never max that title within an acceptable amount of time, and I dont want to spent 24/ of my life inside fort asbenwood. Id rather be down the pub, working or chatting some lass up then spending my life in GWs just to max an endless title.

D8tura · Jul 09, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

I agree that the skills max requirement should be lowered

the people who really wanted this title were going to get it regardless of the skills, but now all are forced to get a title they probably never cared to get. I personally want to max my skills because they are very powerful maxed out and they are able to be used by secondaries without any issue (yet). I salivate to have my ether nightmare at -8 degen for only 10 energy - that's a better use of energy than conjure nightmare at 25

I can't wait to get a triple shot that has the same percent less per arrow that double shot has (and oooo the carnage when it stacks with ignite arrows and splinter weapon!)

and ooooooh that scythe will be mega deadly maxed....sigh

I'm at rank 5 now and I'm still at the base of the mountain and haven't even begun climbing to get to max. I think this title is one of the hardest in the game and I respect anyone who has it maxed. I just wish Anet had the foresight to realize the max for these skills was way too high for the people who want to play with them at their full potential.

I keep hoping they'll change it someday, but hope springs eternal I guess....

Age · Jul 09, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I agree maybe increasing the amount of faction earned and what about those who don't play in ab or Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry.

Lyssa Rowan Tree · Jul 10, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna Ryan

I really wonder what's the complaining about. Here is some of my calculation:

10 mill faction for r12 Kurzick/Luxon (max), get a full bar each day (10), donate that to your guild (make your own if you haven't have one) change it into 20k to the title. This way will require around 50 days of casual AB play.

Err, No.

20k a day? So 5 days for 100k yes? So 50 days would give you 1 million faction not 10 million.

At 20k a day Rank 12 would actually take 500 days of casual AB play, not 50.

Sorry but its waaaaay too high.

500 days to get a maxed title is insane.

As others have said, far harder title tracks can be maxed in a fraction of this time. Its not hard to get faction from AB its just the sheer amount of it that makes maxing Kurzick or Luxon titles a test of your sanity and endurance.

The time required to do it goes beyond the realm of whats reasonable in a game and into the realm of the crazed no life addict who drops dead at their keyboard from overplaying.

Likelytodie · Jul 10, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyssa Rowan Tree

The time required to do it goes beyond the realm of whats reasonable in a game and into the realm of the crazed no life addict who drops dead at their keyboard from overplaying.

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1509/maxml6.jpg
^^ appreciated, genuinely

Anyway, after they do change the max title (provided they do) where does that leave me? They already cut the time in half provided you donate to guild. They even gave you a weekend where you got 40k for every 10k donated. I mean, come on, how much easier can they possibly make it? The worth of the title is that is ACCOUNT BASED. Which means, a max title on every character. This is as stupid as asking for them to cut the hero titles in half, its supposed to take time.

/unsigned

darktyco · Jul 10, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Likelytodie, I think most people are fine with leaving the title alone, they (and I) just want the PvE skills either detached from the title or to be maxed at a far lower level.

vaxmor · Jul 11, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Likelytodie

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1509/maxml6.jpg
^^ appreciated, genuinely

Anyway, after they do change the max title (provided they do) where does that leave me? They already cut the time in half provided you donate to guild. They even gave you a weekend where you got 40k for every 10k donated. I mean, come on, how much easier can they possibly make it? The worth of the title is that is ACCOUNT BASED. Which means, a max title on every character. This is as stupid as asking for them to cut the hero titles in half, its supposed to take time.

/unsigned

hero titles do not provide you with any additional character effectiveness. faction skills do.
1- million (or 5 million) faxction points is stupidly high to achieve max effectiveness for a char.

Molock · Jul 11, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

If ya want that title, you have to FFF ALOT!! Trust me I was in a faction guild. Just recently have people made it to the r12 mark... and those people we're turning in 30-100k faction per day... I call it not having a life but w/e.

The max should not be reduced but the skills related to the title should max out at 5 (like some other poster mentioned before me).

Likelytodie · Jul 11, 2007, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaxmor

hero titles do not provide you with any additional character effectiveness. faction skills do.
1- million (or 5 million) faxction points is stupidly high to achieve max effectiveness for a char.

The point is that it takes time. For crying out loud, they've already cut the time to get it IN HALF, and you are still complaining about it? The Kurzick/Luxon skills were added as incentive to get the title, not to give people with no patience at all something to complain about. If you want the benefit from the skills then work for it. I'm willing to bet, that had the circumstances been different, and the skills hadn't been added, you would not care at all.

vaxmor · Jul 11, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

*work* for it - in a *game*?

hmm. . .time > skill ?

the fact that they cut it down from 10 million to 5 million sadly makes little difference to the hundreds of hours of pure grind required to achieve a char with optimal efficiency.

thats what it comes down to - many hundreds of hours of grind. might as well play WoW, to be honest.

freekedoutfish · Jul 11, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Likelytodie

The point is that it takes time. For crying out loud, they've already cut the time to get it IN HALF, and you are still complaining about it? The Kurzick/Luxon skills were added as incentive to get the title, not to give people with no patience at all something to complain about. If you want the benefit from the skills then work for it. I'm willing to bet, that had the circumstances been different, and the skills hadn't been added, you would not care at all.

Well ofcourse we wouldnt care if the skills hadnt been added. Thats a bit of a daft and obvious statement to make.

This entire issue is due to the skills, but Anet added them and made it unrealistic for your casual player to ever max the skill.

I accept that any title should take time and effort to max, because you should have to work for them. But they have to make realistic goals and limits that any player can attain.

It has to be a goal or max level that casual and hardcore players can reach for. You cant deny that only a dedicated, hardcore, pvp player would be able to max the faction titles?

What about your casual PvE'er who just wants to use his new Luxon skill to max capacity?

What about your casual PvE'er or casual PvP'er who doesnt have endless hours to spend ingame, because they have work, university and a girlfriend away from the computer?

What about those of us who have done everything, but dont want to spend the next 6 months to a year inside fort aspenwood. Its fun to play, buts its not that fun. Especially when 8/10 times someone either rage quits or leaches.

Yes a title should have a max limit and it should be BIG but NOT unrealistic to the majority of players.

CassiusDrehyg · Jul 11, 2007, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Please stop QQing. The max faction title is high because maxing it is supposed to be a great achievement. If you don't have the dedication to get it, don't go for it, it's just that simple.

Enigma Ballista · Jul 11, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

I don't see what the fuss is. The faction skills are optional. If you don't want to grind a title for them, you are free to do so. Also bear in mind that this title is account-wide so your brand new [insert profession here] levelled up to 20 in 9 hours can get their hands on a perfectly good faction skill by using your already obrained level. First the time to max the title was cut in half. Faction gains were increased and balanced and STILL people keep nagging about the max. I doubt it will be lowered and anyone who does not want to get it is free not to.

freekedoutfish · Jul 11, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassiusDrehyg

Please stop QQing. The max faction title is high because maxing it is supposed to be a great achievement. If you don't have the dedication to get it, don't go for it, it's just that simple.

If the title wasnt connected to skills, then I would agree. But it is and it has benefits upon those skills.

That means its not just desirable to those with "dedication" or those who enjoy earning it. It means all PvE players who have those skills, will want to max the title to get the full benefit for that skill.

Anet changed the priority of the title from being a luxary to a necessity.

If Anet wanted to add faction related skills, they should appreciate that and amend it accordingly!

However I do admit, if the skills didnt exist then yes I wouldn't even care. But the skills do exist, and it means casual players who dont like the title, now require the title.

There are quite a few nice faction skills and to have them maxed could be of huge benefit in PvE at some point.

Cherrie · Jul 11, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

I think the problem is not the title itself, but the skills tied to it - noone protested for it being too high before the skills....

Personally, I think the title itself is fine, its one of the 'grindiest' but at the same time one of a few you cant simply buy.

But.. whats not ok is the fact that you need it maxed - you need that much grind - to obtain max efficiency for a skill in a game that is supposed to be - as the devs say themselves - prizing skill over time. With those skills and this track, Devs are prizing grind overe any type of skill and thats not ok.

My proposition would be:
keep the title track as it is, but lower the title lvl at which the skills get max efficiency to say... 5th or 6th title level. This way people that worked hard to get their title will keep the l33tnes of it as well as the max efficient skills, and people who don't give a darn about the title itself but simply want the skills will not have to grind that much.